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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3795
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Posted - 2013.02.12 13:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Cotic wrote:Cursan Voran wrote:Sreegs you have won this one by a knockout.
Go do something else for a few hours and let us players deal with the dicks in this thread... This. Tesco tinfoil (infected with horse meat) is selling out like nothing I've ever seen before. he just told a few thousand unsuspecting evemon users that they are in violation of the EULA. what do you expect to happen? EVEMon does not touch local files from what I know. EVEMon uses the EVE API. There is a thread on the forums for it and CCP has not locked it. So I understand that this tool is officially allowed and it has been for a long time now.
I have NEVER found a player with less clue about how EvE works on many threads and yet he keeps to diligently dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole.
Please, seriously stop posting and start learning. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3799
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garcia Arnst wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: In my opinion cache scraping is illegal. You won't be banned for it today..
That's kind of problematic isn't it, as we have no idea whether your opinion is held by CCP at large, whether you will continue to hold the same view, or if any successor you have will hold the same view.
First of all cache scraping can't be illegal because if any company installed illegal to read content on consumers' hard disks then they'd get in big troubles with the law. It's against an EULA clause instead, which is not a law enforcing medium by any way, just a private contract between a company and an user.
Second, you don't need to alter any file nor to even start EvE to read those files.
Some very clueless companies have indeed tried encrypting content in the past and even to enforce "digital rights" with the nice result of seeing people working harder to crack the content open and spread it even more.
EvE cannot refuse to accept players mods and at the same time don't allow 3rd party utilities to do what's needed.
The API is a first step. But in order to properly implement a markets data 3rd party consumption an optimal implementation would be to let 3rd party developers access a CCP provided ZeroMQ or other similar real time protocol data feed. The regular API and even the REST new version could never survive one minute of the necessary data throughput.
This of course means that the current "grey" situation of "we'll let you read the cache, just don't abuse it" is best to stay in until a proper solution is found by CCP.
I remind that the game with the most realistic markets has also the most left-not-updated markets interfaces and facilities of every MMO out there except one. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3799
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:First of all cache scraping can't be illegal because ... Newsflash: it just got illegal. You can biatch about it all day long or you can do what others do and respect CCP Sreegs' opinion. It is quite easy. Which side are you on? CCP's side or on the botters'? Think before you post your answer. Think twice.
So, besides not knowing the game you don't know about software licensing practices. Got it.
Now find me *one* EULA in the world that can declare anything illegal.
The only "EULAs" with such a power are the countries codex of law.
The games EULAs only define a binding contract (usually completely limiting the rights of the consumer) on what's allowed or not. Not on what's illegal. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3799
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thur Barbek wrote:Rofl. I guess me and about 3/4ths of eve will get banned soon then. Including you, since you already admitted you used evemon to scrap cache files. Being ignorant of the law doesn't mean your not liable, so don't say "I'm innocent because i didn't know."
The fun thing is that he's getting all incensed and then HE breached the EULA (assuming CCP Screegs words would be enforced) while I have never enabled EvE Mon cache scraping. Actually I am not using EvE Mon since months.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3799
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:The games EULAs only define a binding contract (usually completely limiting the rights of the consumer) on what's allowed or not. Not on what's illegal. The EULA can be changed by CCP at any time and they can ask you to accept it again at which point you can decide to biomass or, well, accept it. Stop arguing. There is nothing to win here. CCP Sreegs has got the last word and we get to respect it. Do you seriously have a problem with this? If so then you should biomass now.
The only one with a problem right here is you, surrounded by people kindly trying to explain your things and you headbutting left and right.
I have no issue whatsoever. I don't need to alter the client or anything to smoke someone's butt in the markets.
I don't even have the issue of having started EvE Mon. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3801
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Posted - 2013.02.12 15:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
That's pretty transparent.
To me, the statement about "3.You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an *accelerated* rate when compared with ordinary Game play" is badly stated.
Because a cynical person could see that they are allowed to use stuff to facilitate acquisition of items etc. at a *same or slower* rate when compared with ordinary game play.
Now, while acquiring stuff at a slower rate seems dumb, there are a number of ways to make intense gains with it. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
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Posted - 2013.02.12 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:baltec1 wrote:Zakarumit CZ wrote:I would like to see much more bot tiers, but oh well. Anyway, as per using cache files for eve central or so, I would love to pull those mineral and module prices via API from CCP...problem is its not possible yet and I personally dont feel like typing 500-1000 numbers in my spreadsheets every day to see whats worth building manually. At least you have spreadsheets. With BCs manufacturing tool now broken and not looking like its going to be fixed I might have to see just how much spreadsheet voodoo I can remember from school Depends what you want, really. http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/ will do all the math for you.
What's "BC" tool? I always used EvE Meep and another very famous manufacturing Excel File. I am always open to learn more Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Just for the record, dear CCP Sreegs, I like what you have done and that you take your time to come onto the forum and talk to us. It is very kind of you and one does not get to see this often. So thank you for doing this!
Imo CCP Sreegs does just one thing wrong.
I also visit a RL traders forum where there's a quite knowledgeable guy who basically says correct things but has always everybody flaming and teaming against him. Why? Because his attitude is very defensive (more than mine! ) / aggressive and shows off his superiority. This is usually not really well accepted so people end up flaming him all day long even if he's totally correct.
I don't say CCP Sreegs is like that, but he indeed takes a sharp approach towards persons and this is easily seen as a provocation. This might also be cultural. I find his posting allright, others see it as almost offensive. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:What's "BC" tool? I always used EvE Meep and another very famous manufacturing Excel File. I am always open to learn more Battleclinic. Its about the only thing I do use from that site.
Ah, thank you. I used to use EvE HQ from the same web site, it had an unofficial sweet T2 invention plug in that made life so easy. But then the plug in stopped being updated Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 19:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Altrue wrote: PS : Fun fact, micro-trading (or "real life botting") is commonly used in reality. It made me laugh that such behaviour is only denigrated in a virtual world.
Fun fact, nobody cares because RL botters tend to lose money and fix themselves over time. Even "macro" institutional botting and high frequency trading are losing profitability.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 19:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dan Leviathan wrote:I'm fairly certain that there are nuances allowing the entire server to be taken down right now never to be put up again w/o legal repercussion. CCP has a right to be bold. So why not try treating them w/ some respect? We as a player-base are responsible for chauffeuring Eve into the next era, and we can only do that through good-willed collaboration. Threads like this will scare off prospective players. It makes it look like the game is failing, on its last leg or something. And it doesn't have to be. So many "veteran" players w/ there bots are screwing everything up for those of us who are just entering the game. I'm going to stick around, because I have faith in Eve and CCP. But I consider myself a stoic. Please, can we just agree this guy was botting and move on? Quit trying to stifle Eve's potential out of boredom. Sreegs, ilu!
What worried me about this matter is that CCP caught a blatant moron. That is someone acting in a clearly, unmistakably non-human way. That's cool.
But what about the other, smarter market botters? I know they are officially counted at about 10 (ten) but it's more than enough to perma-spam thousands of market updates in an unfair way towards the other players.
Any chance we get some stronger bannage on them? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3811
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 20:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Im sorry but the more he speaks the more I want his head on a spike. My CSM choice was removed for far less and made no fuss like this guy.
Your CSM choice proved to be unable to be worth a public position by being weak enough to:
1) Get drunk and then talk public statements. Not even knowing how much alcohol he could bear before going nuts.
2) Treaten somebody in RL, which for now is somewhat worse than cheating in a game.
3) Act all high and mighty about it till he got "CCP nuked" into obliivion and peer pressure forced to public excuses and resignation.
This is also why elections and indirect democracy became a farce over time: influential / rich / with a clapping mob people get zerg-voted into positions of power and then do disasters. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
3812
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 22:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aren Madigan wrote: OK, ban everyone then, everyone's guilty, no proof that they're not! He's botting and HE's botting and so is she!
Ban everyone who types at more than 120 WPM because this is clearly a bot, despite the world record being 216! Nope, the average is around 60ish. Anyone too much faster than than is CLEARLY a botter.
You seem to have profound and unrepairable issues with CCP's word and trustworthyness about their official statements.
Why are you still playing a game when you don't trust their official word?
CCP are not flawless and they DID have false positives in the past, but this one case seems totally blatant. Arguing against this would really demand a proof of feasibility of such a stunt in a legitimate way. The guys who used the keyboard replication stuff proved they were not botting with pictures and stuff after all. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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